Smart + Heart: Why Character Beats Control in Leadership with Stephen Klemich & Dave Jones (#358)

In this episode of the Edufuturists podcast, Ben and Steve sit down with Dave Jones and Stephen "Klem" Klemich to unpack Heart Styles, the character development framework built on 18 years of research into what really drives effective leadership, teaching and learning. Dave Jones is the founder of Uplift, a coaching and leadership consultancy based in High Wycombe, UK. He is an accredited Heart Styles practitioner whose career has spanned youth work, church leadership, and running a school hub for Oasis UK's multi-academy trust in South London, before moving into full-time leadership consultancy. Klem is the co-founder of Heart Styles, a global character development methodology now used across corporate, education and sporting organisations. Based in Sydney, Australia, he spent over 40 years in people development and 18 years researching the principles behind effective and ineffective leadership behaviour. We cover: - What Heart Styles is and the 18-year research behind it - Why fear and ego-driven pride quietly sabotage classrooms and leadership teams - The shift from fight and flight into flow, and what it does to the brain - Why humility, not control, is what actually builds trust and results - Moving schools and organisations from a parent-child dynamic to adult-to-adult culture - The "smart plus heart" model for raising a whole person, not just a result - Why celebrating mistakes builds nimble, high-performing teams - Klem's own story of undiagnosed dyslexia and the teacher who nearly broke him Why listen? If you lead a team, a classroom or a school and you've ever wondered why "getting tough" only works for so long, this conversation reframes leadership and teaching around humility and love as performance drivers, not soft add-ons. It's a direct challenge to fear-based, exam-obsessed culture in education, backed by two decades of research and lived experience. Chapters: 00:00 Highlights 00:40 Introductions 03:06 Meet Dave Jones 03:47 Meet Stephen "Klem" Klemich 04:53 Klem's origin story: moving schools, undiagnosed dyslexia, and finding purpose 07:28 Dave's path from youth work to Heart Styles 11:15 What is Heart Styles? 11:57 18 years of research: fear, ego, humility and love 17:53 Fight, flight and flow explained 26:59 Why leadership is shifting toward vulnerability 28:01 From parent-child to adult-adult culture 34:26 The energy of humility vs ego 37:17 Why control-based leadership fails long term 40:14 Bringing love into work and education 41:39 Klem's dyslexia story: the power of encouragement 45:18 Quickfire Questions Read Dave's blog post about the Heart Styles Model: https://uplift-consulting.co.uk/blog/blog-4 Find out more about Heart Styles: https://heartstyles.com/ Grab a copy of Klem's book, Above the Line: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0062886835 Thanks so much for joining us again for another episode - we appreciate you. Ben & Steve x Check out all about Edufuturists at https://www.edufuturists.com Join the Wolfpack Community: https://www.edufuturists.com/wolfpack Want to sponsor future episodes or get involved with the Edufuturists work? Get in touch: info@edufuturists.com Grab your copy of the new Pick 'n' Mix Education book at: https://www.crownhouse.co.uk/picknmix-education